Interview with Robin Elliott, Dave Blewer and Paul 'Wiggy' Wade-Williams of Pinnacle
Entertainment Group, Thursday 30 August, Gen Con UK
Entertainment Group, Thursday 30 August, Gen Con UK
RPG Virtual Tabletop
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Badgers 14/09/07
Robin: I've tinkered with Fantasy Grounds a little bit. Looking forward to trying it out.
RPGVT: Just before I left yesterday, Vince [the designer] sent me the final copy and it's looking really good.
Robin: Excellent! And then there's D&D E4 coming out...
RPGVT: The general consensus on the online boards is that E4 can only be a good thing...
Robin: Yeah. There's the d20 publishers worried about it!
RPGVT: In not so many words, they seem to be making it 'Fast! Furious! Fun!'
Robin: (laughs) I have thought that myself!
RPGVT: And there's a thread on your PEG site that all the Wizards guys have been buying SW at Gen Con Indy!
Robin: That's a good compliment really, to the things that Pinnacle are doing. We've had a fantastic day today as well -
so many people have said everything's looking really good.
RPGVT: So can you say what you do for SW?
Robin: I'm Robin Elliott and I'm the graphic designer chap! I have an official title but I can't remember what it is now!
Dave: I know what your unofficial title is! (laughs)
Robin: Basically I do all the graphic design for the core books, and put together the pages, the layout, stuff like that, so
that's my job in a nutshell. I work closely with Simon and Wiggy about how the products are going to come together.
RPGVT: They do have a lot of good art in them.
Robin: Both Simon and I have very strong visual ideas about what we want the books to look
like, and we just won't put up with poor artwork. We want great artwork - we go out looking for
talented artists - not always the most well-known, but we know what we like, so we tend to go
for the best we can, really. It's difficult because obviously it's expensive, and we have to do a
budget-balancing act with every book. Solomon Kane was - Shane Hensley wanted it to look
really beautiful with a lot of artwork in it, and then of course you're looking at a very expensive
book to make. But I think we've managed to pull it off quite well with the amount of artwork in
there. I think there's near enough something on every page. That was quite a tough couple of
weeks on that one!
RPGVT: How many different artists do you usually have on a book?
Robin: It's about 15-20 artists, depending on how big the book is. You can't really expect one
artist to do one book, it would kill them! (laughs) So we try to spread it around.
RPGVT: How long does it take to do the artwork? Like the front cover?
Robin: Well this is an amalgamation of several people’s work, really - I don't do illustration, I do graphic design, so we
have an artist that'll do the characters...
RPGVT: That looks very similar to the WorldWork Standies, in style of illustration...?
Robin: It's possible - I don't recall the artist working for anybody else though... We send the artists a brief, which is kind
of a rough outline, and it's usually only a paragraph, and you just say, 'we want a female brandishing a sword, and
possibly she's got to have long hair'. We keep it quite loose because we want the artist to come up with their idea - we
don't want to tie them down too much. In the past, where we've wanted certain things, we might make it a tighter brief, but
then...
Wiggy: ...You're hobbling the creativity of the artist to a certain extent.
Robin: Sometimes it's really nice to send something off to an artist and see what comes back.
RPGVT: Do you get pencil sketches back?
RPGVT: Just before I left yesterday, Vince [the designer] sent me the final copy and it's looking really good.
Robin: Excellent! And then there's D&D E4 coming out...
RPGVT: The general consensus on the online boards is that E4 can only be a good thing...
Robin: Yeah. There's the d20 publishers worried about it!
RPGVT: In not so many words, they seem to be making it 'Fast! Furious! Fun!'
Robin: (laughs) I have thought that myself!
RPGVT: And there's a thread on your PEG site that all the Wizards guys have been buying SW at Gen Con Indy!
Robin: That's a good compliment really, to the things that Pinnacle are doing. We've had a fantastic day today as well -
so many people have said everything's looking really good.
RPGVT: So can you say what you do for SW?
Robin: I'm Robin Elliott and I'm the graphic designer chap! I have an official title but I can't remember what it is now!
Dave: I know what your unofficial title is! (laughs)
Robin: Basically I do all the graphic design for the core books, and put together the pages, the layout, stuff like that, so
that's my job in a nutshell. I work closely with Simon and Wiggy about how the products are going to come together.
RPGVT: They do have a lot of good art in them.
Robin: Both Simon and I have very strong visual ideas about what we want the books to look
like, and we just won't put up with poor artwork. We want great artwork - we go out looking for
talented artists - not always the most well-known, but we know what we like, so we tend to go
for the best we can, really. It's difficult because obviously it's expensive, and we have to do a
budget-balancing act with every book. Solomon Kane was - Shane Hensley wanted it to look
really beautiful with a lot of artwork in it, and then of course you're looking at a very expensive
book to make. But I think we've managed to pull it off quite well with the amount of artwork in
there. I think there's near enough something on every page. That was quite a tough couple of
weeks on that one!
RPGVT: How many different artists do you usually have on a book?
Robin: It's about 15-20 artists, depending on how big the book is. You can't really expect one
artist to do one book, it would kill them! (laughs) So we try to spread it around.
RPGVT: How long does it take to do the artwork? Like the front cover?
Robin: Well this is an amalgamation of several people’s work, really - I don't do illustration, I do graphic design, so we
have an artist that'll do the characters...
RPGVT: That looks very similar to the WorldWork Standies, in style of illustration...?
Robin: It's possible - I don't recall the artist working for anybody else though... We send the artists a brief, which is kind
of a rough outline, and it's usually only a paragraph, and you just say, 'we want a female brandishing a sword, and
possibly she's got to have long hair'. We keep it quite loose because we want the artist to come up with their idea - we
don't want to tie them down too much. In the past, where we've wanted certain things, we might make it a tighter brief, but
then...
Wiggy: ...You're hobbling the creativity of the artist to a certain extent.
Robin: Sometimes it's really nice to send something off to an artist and see what comes back.
RPGVT: Do you get pencil sketches back?
Robin: Yes, we get a prelim sketch level and then we decide if it's along the right lines. If it's way off - and it usually isn't -
we say, look, that's not going to work. Sometimes it's down to us, it's the way we've written a brief, and they haven't really
grasped quite what we needed. Or they're struggling because we've put them in a pose that's really difficult to draw!
Some artists are stronger at doing certain things. We sometimes choose artists for doing characters, but maybe they're
not so good at geographicals, buildings or something like that, so we choose an artist depending on their strengths
really. But once we've got that level back, then we usually go straight for the full colour finished item. Once we've
approved the prelim sketch, they go on and finish it. And it can take an artist maybe a day to do a picture. They won't
spend more than that on it. They crack through it. Generally, the longer they spend on it, the more expensive the
artwork's going to be, so we usually fix a budget and say, you've got to do it within this amount of money. It's funny,
because you'll get some artists that can't do it for that sort of money because they need longer on it. So we try to get
artists who are really good, and who know the budget of the piece, and they can work to within that budget. They tend to
be the most talented artists, because they know when to stop. And with the cover, this [Pirates of the Spanish Main]
cover, it went through several variations before it was approved by everybody.
RPGVT: Then WizKids have to approve it?
Robin: That's also, yes, something we had to do with this book, POTSM, we had to get it approved by them. This one
took several months to get the cover completed and finalised. We're not working on it all the time, that's just the time
period, talking to people and waiting for things to come back.
RPGVT: Roleplaying games now are absolute works of art - coffee-table books compared to what was around 15-20
years ago. Do you feel a pressure with each new release to raise the bar?
Robin: Personally I always try and push it, because it's a work of art for me. I want it to be better than my last one, and it's
probably the same for you, Wiggy - when you write, you want something to be better, so... we always try to push the
boundaries every time.
Wiggy: You just have to know where to draw the line, though, 'cos it's quite possible, especially when writing. Were this
[POTSM] to come out today, there's more I'd like to have included. In six months' time, I'd say that I could have added this
- it's never finished!
Dave: Books aren't released, they escape! (laughs)
Robin: That's true! They get out, somehow...
Wiggy: We could have spent two or three years on Kane...
Dave: I could still be writing [Sundered] Skies, right now...
Robin: Well you are, aren't you! (laughs)
Dave: I'm writing the Companion, right now!
Robin: We're quite lucky because everyone who's here this weekend is pretty much the core team that make the books
for Pinnacle. It is an American company, and the people in America like Shane Hensley - the figurehead - he obviously
has quite a bit of input, but he does tend to leave it down to us to get on with it really. But we do have the 'money people'
as well - they obviously just want the releases. But they're the ones who say - 'Stop! We need to release this book!' So
it's a good balance, I think. They don't really want to get involved with the minutiae of designing the game, so they let us
get on with it.
RPGVT: How did you all get together?
Robin: Simon and I were involved in the card game market, and-
Dave: That's not how you normally describe it! (laughs) It sort of 'did something to you', rather than 'being involved
with'...!
Robin: Yes, it destroyed me! (laughs)
Dave: That's not how you normally put it either!
Robin: We made the Judge Dredd collectable card game back in 1999, and Shane Hensley approached us at that point
to sell it in America, which we were really happy to link up with him to do. We flew to 'Vegas at GAMA time - we decided to
go the day before! (laughs) - we needed to sell this game really quickly! - so we got on the plane to see what we could
do. We flew out to Vegas and Shane was fantastic, he wanted the game, he really liked the game and he's a big fan of
Judge Dredd, and in fact when he wrote to Simon originally, he said, "You know, I've got a nine-inch Dredd on my desk!"
- he's got a little statuette of Dredd. He said, "I'm interested in helping you get this into games distribution in America," so
he really took it and went with it. It then transpired that we didn't do so well with Dredd and so that died a bit of a death.
But the links were there. Simon started working on some things for Shane. I had kind of backed out of the industry at that
point, 'cos I was a broken man! (laughs). But I've been friends with Simon for a long time - we went to university together
- so Simon had the links with Shane, started writing some stuff with Shane, and Simon said oh, Robin can help with this,
so I kind of got dragged back into it. At the time, Wiggy was actually a fan of Judge Dredd at the time, weren't you?
Wiggy: Oh yeah. Big Dredd fan.
Robin: And we met at a convention that you'd [ran]-
Wiggy: Wigcon! Egotistically named!
Robin: So that was kind of funny 'cos-
Wiggy: Strange how it's all worked out!
Robin: So then Wiggy got involved with Pinnacle - I don't know how that happened -
Wiggy: I've given my version of that! [See the interview with Simon and Wiggy]
Robin: So that's us. Dave-
Robin: But we just gelled...
Dave: I like that, a group of mavericks! We just work well together.
Robin: And we love the game.
Dave: Technically, Simon's our boss, but it doesn't really feel like that!
Wiggy: I think the Internet helps - obviously the company can work without the Internet, but-
Robin: I know you're technically in the UK, but only just!
Dave: More like Iceland!
Wiggy: But there isn't that pressure of someone leaning over you, tapping you on the shoulder, saying "Where's that
report by 5 o'clock"...
Dave: But also the writing process is very lonely. If you didn't have the Internet-
Wiggy: Ah, well-
Dave: Well you're not normal!
Wiggy: I agree!
Robin: We're all spread out. You're in Shetland. I'm in the West Country, Dave's in Essex. This is the first time we've
seen each other in a year, in person. Well, not quite that long.
Wiggy: I haven't seen Shane since before I joined the company!
Robin: So we don't get together that often! The Internet is the main communication route for us.
Wiggy: I talk to Dave every day on MSN, pass him ideas-
Dave: Unless I've blocked you!
Wiggy: Yeah, well! (laughs)
Robin: "He rubbished my idea - I don't want to talk to him!"
Wiggy: Stuff gets sent to Poland via MSN as well - you've got that instant feedback as if you were in the office.
Robin: And the forum as well, we keep in touch with our fans.
RPGVT: You have got a very good presence in the forums.
Dave: It is a pleasure as well.
Robin: That's the key - they always astound me, the fans, in lots of different ways. They'll post something and say, can
we have this- For example, 'cos last week we released Kane in America, people want to play it and they said, oh, we
need the character sheet - we don't want to cut the one out of the book, we want to download one. Of course, we hadn't
really planned for that to happen until the release in October, so we put it up there straight away. And somebody wrote
on the forum, "Wow! You wouldn't expect that from [another large game company]" (laughs) But that's 'cos we are a small
company and can respond quite quickly to people’s very personal wants. So we are kind of proud of that really.
Wiggy: The fans appreciate it as well.
Dave: From my point of view, I am - effectively - a fan. As well as writing for the company, I'm a fan.
Robin: We all are, really. We're all fanboys aren't we!
Dave: You look at the forum, and you're- "That could be me!"
Robin: We don't do it for the money!
Dave: No! If we were doing it for the money-
Wiggy: No-one in the industry is in it for the money, we're in it for the love... It's not every person who, 24 hours a day, 7
days a week gets to use their imagination to the full... and get paid to do it!
Dave: That's right... you get paid?
Wiggy: I do - I know you don't! (laughs) How else do you think I get to drive my Porsche and live in my penthouse in
Shetland!
Robin: That private jet doesn't pay for itself!
Dave: We thought that was your sheep-smuggling ring!
RPGVT: So Sundered Skies is the next setting?
Robin: It is slated to be the next setting, which we hope will be available in January. It's only a week away, Dave...
Dave: I know, it's a week away from completion!
Robin: We have a bit of a lead-time on our printing. We print in China, so it's about three months to get it from there.
Dave: It really is a slow-boat!
Robin: But we've got- am I safe to say what we've got for the next three products?
Wiggy: It's 'Skies, 'Stream and Weird Wars. Although Simon has dropped another Weird Wars title he shouldn't have
done [edited out of the other Pinnacle interview!] - that's going to cause a stir on the forums when they read that!
Robin: You buy him a drink and that's it! He sings like a canary!
RPGVT: We'll have him back then!
Robin: The problem is, we are working to a really long schedule, so-
Wiggy: We've got stuff down for 2011!
Robin: Yeah, we know what we want to do.
RPGVT: A big reason for coming today was to get a copy of Solomon Kane...
Wiggy: If [Robert E] Howard was alive today, he'd be one of the greatest gaming writers out there, that's for sure. He'd
publish his own Solomon Kane book! I'd love to have met him.
RPGVT: He and Lovecraft used to write to each other...
Wiggy: Very close friends...
Dave: You can tell that in the writing as well...
Wiggy: Yes, in Conan especially, with all the tentacled monsters...
Dave: I was surprised when I started to read Conan, to see all these cthulhoid monstrosities roaming around...
Wiggy: I'm not sure the fans realise, but for Kane, you and Simon were up almost 48 hours towards the end, weren't
you? I was writing 90-hour weeks to write it...!
Robin: That’s the only bad thing about working in the games industry: you don't get to play any games...
Wiggy: We put in a lot of hours. I mean, everyone.
Robin: And then Simon got in the car in Sheffield to drive down to my house, which is a four-hour drive, to finish it.
Because we wanted to hit Gen Con with the release, so it was really a last-minute push to get that finished. We had
finished it the week before, but Shane wanted even more artwork in it, so we pulled out all the stops!
Wiggy: He [Shane] is very passionate though, extremely passionate about Kane - he's a huge Kane fan.
Robin: That is the one he really wanted to do. I was well chuffed with the result - and he was very impressed when he
saw it come back from the printers, so...
RPGVT: Do you have any more licenses that you're going to work to? Or are you going to work on your own stuff?
Robin: Currently the next three releases are our own thing.
Dave: Never say never...
Wiggy: We have plenty of the Pirates books, to support the existing RPG. We've got more than enough in-house talent,
without trying to sound cocky. Me and Dave are the main writers, and we're full of ideas-
Dave: We're full of it! (laughs)
Robin: Sometimes these opportunities do come up, and Shane's the one to find them out. He'll just pop up and say -
"Guess what, guys! You're making this next week!" We have been criticised for not getting things out fast enough...
Dave: And yet again, Sundered Skies is a week away from completion...! (laughs)
Robin: So jobs like Dave's setting has been knocked back a few times. (Answers the phone to Simon on the stand)
We've been drinking - we've told them everything! We're trying to rectify all the things you said! Well yeah, it's important
work! Keeping the fans happy!
Dave: How many Kanes has he sold?!
Robin: (Still on the phone) It's a harsh life! Twenty minutes and then you can come and have a beer! OK... better get
back to the interview! (laughs) This is all being recorded, OK darling?! Bye! (laughs)
RPGVT: How did you get the license for Kane?
Wiggy: I don't think anyone knows the story behind that one! Paradox own it and all the works...
Robin: Basically Shane works in the computer industry in his day-job, and he's got some tremendous links to various
people in high places. He is the guy that links everybody up - he's that figurehead that we are lucky to have.
RPGVT: Kane was an odd license to choose - have many people heard of Solomon Kane?
Wiggy: I think it was a gamble to some extent - everyone who games has heard of Conan, but Solomon Kane is not so
well known.
Robin: They're putting a film together, so I think a lot of people will know about Solomon Kane.
Wiggy: I think they will soon.
Robin: The film's in pre-production, so... It's by the director who did Death Watch, Michael Bassett.
Wiggy: That was a good film, Death Watch.
Robin: The director's got a web site all about [Solomon Kane]. He's got some big names involved. So I'm hoping the film
will come out...
Wiggy: And Dark Horse are producing new Kane comics in the next year or two, so Kane is going to be big, I think.
Robin: It could quite possibly be a big thing for us. I think everyone's going to know about Solomon Kane.
Wiggy: It was quite interesting writing Kane. Kane - the fictitious character - knew Sir Richard Grenville, who of course
was a real-life person. He was buried about three miles from where we used to live, so I actually wrote the book in Kane
country - Kane was born in Devon.
RPGVT: Grenville was a pirate?
Wiggy: I don't think the English called them pirates... privateers, I think! (laughs) ...the French and Spanish may have
called them pirates! (laughs) Old Grenville was a bit of an adventurer-type, as they were then, and I think the first few
native American indians brought back to England landed at Bideford, which was where Grenville is now buried, in the
local church. It's quite interesting from that point of view to walk around where Kane fictitionally may have walked - the
same streets that we were treading. So that was quite good. It's quite amazing: Howard lived in Texas in the Thirties, and
he knew stuff that people don't know using the Internet, about Devon and England and everything else.
RPGVT: Have you sold all the Special Editions?
Robin: Well, it's the same book, but it contains extra artwork, a poster and limited edition stuff like that.
RPGVT: I'm not leaving today until I've bought one more book...
Wiggy: Pirates! Rippers!
Robin: Now that is a great game!
Wiggy: I do like Rippers. It's still our favourite setting.
Robin: I really like it.
RPGVT: Well thanks very much, guys, Any closing words?
Robin: Expect great things from Pinnacle. Because we've got some big plans.
Page 1
we say, look, that's not going to work. Sometimes it's down to us, it's the way we've written a brief, and they haven't really
grasped quite what we needed. Or they're struggling because we've put them in a pose that's really difficult to draw!
Some artists are stronger at doing certain things. We sometimes choose artists for doing characters, but maybe they're
not so good at geographicals, buildings or something like that, so we choose an artist depending on their strengths
really. But once we've got that level back, then we usually go straight for the full colour finished item. Once we've
approved the prelim sketch, they go on and finish it. And it can take an artist maybe a day to do a picture. They won't
spend more than that on it. They crack through it. Generally, the longer they spend on it, the more expensive the
artwork's going to be, so we usually fix a budget and say, you've got to do it within this amount of money. It's funny,
because you'll get some artists that can't do it for that sort of money because they need longer on it. So we try to get
artists who are really good, and who know the budget of the piece, and they can work to within that budget. They tend to
be the most talented artists, because they know when to stop. And with the cover, this [Pirates of the Spanish Main]
cover, it went through several variations before it was approved by everybody.
RPGVT: Then WizKids have to approve it?
Robin: That's also, yes, something we had to do with this book, POTSM, we had to get it approved by them. This one
took several months to get the cover completed and finalised. We're not working on it all the time, that's just the time
period, talking to people and waiting for things to come back.
RPGVT: Roleplaying games now are absolute works of art - coffee-table books compared to what was around 15-20
years ago. Do you feel a pressure with each new release to raise the bar?
Robin: Personally I always try and push it, because it's a work of art for me. I want it to be better than my last one, and it's
probably the same for you, Wiggy - when you write, you want something to be better, so... we always try to push the
boundaries every time.
Wiggy: You just have to know where to draw the line, though, 'cos it's quite possible, especially when writing. Were this
[POTSM] to come out today, there's more I'd like to have included. In six months' time, I'd say that I could have added this
- it's never finished!
Dave: Books aren't released, they escape! (laughs)
Robin: That's true! They get out, somehow...
Wiggy: We could have spent two or three years on Kane...
Dave: I could still be writing [Sundered] Skies, right now...
Robin: Well you are, aren't you! (laughs)
Dave: I'm writing the Companion, right now!
Robin: We're quite lucky because everyone who's here this weekend is pretty much the core team that make the books
for Pinnacle. It is an American company, and the people in America like Shane Hensley - the figurehead - he obviously
has quite a bit of input, but he does tend to leave it down to us to get on with it really. But we do have the 'money people'
as well - they obviously just want the releases. But they're the ones who say - 'Stop! We need to release this book!' So
it's a good balance, I think. They don't really want to get involved with the minutiae of designing the game, so they let us
get on with it.
RPGVT: How did you all get together?
Robin: Simon and I were involved in the card game market, and-
Dave: That's not how you normally describe it! (laughs) It sort of 'did something to you', rather than 'being involved
with'...!
Robin: Yes, it destroyed me! (laughs)
Dave: That's not how you normally put it either!
Robin: We made the Judge Dredd collectable card game back in 1999, and Shane Hensley approached us at that point
to sell it in America, which we were really happy to link up with him to do. We flew to 'Vegas at GAMA time - we decided to
go the day before! (laughs) - we needed to sell this game really quickly! - so we got on the plane to see what we could
do. We flew out to Vegas and Shane was fantastic, he wanted the game, he really liked the game and he's a big fan of
Judge Dredd, and in fact when he wrote to Simon originally, he said, "You know, I've got a nine-inch Dredd on my desk!"
- he's got a little statuette of Dredd. He said, "I'm interested in helping you get this into games distribution in America," so
he really took it and went with it. It then transpired that we didn't do so well with Dredd and so that died a bit of a death.
But the links were there. Simon started working on some things for Shane. I had kind of backed out of the industry at that
point, 'cos I was a broken man! (laughs). But I've been friends with Simon for a long time - we went to university together
- so Simon had the links with Shane, started writing some stuff with Shane, and Simon said oh, Robin can help with this,
so I kind of got dragged back into it. At the time, Wiggy was actually a fan of Judge Dredd at the time, weren't you?
Wiggy: Oh yeah. Big Dredd fan.
Robin: And we met at a convention that you'd [ran]-
Wiggy: Wigcon! Egotistically named!
Robin: So that was kind of funny 'cos-
Wiggy: Strange how it's all worked out!
Robin: So then Wiggy got involved with Pinnacle - I don't know how that happened -
Wiggy: I've given my version of that! [See the interview with Simon and Wiggy]
Robin: So that's us. Dave-
- Dave: I was writing a setting called Sundered Skies for another game system and it
wasn't working out. Someone suggested to me Savage Worlds, I went and bought a
copy, immediately knew it was perfect, put some information up about Sundered Skies on
the Pinnacle forum, felt smug, went to bed! (laughs) Got up in the morning, had a book
offer! Literally, it was like that.
Robin: And that's the thing that Shane does all the time.
Wiggy: He's got the eye for it.
Dave: And then I just made myself indispensable, really! I was always there, bouncing
about, going 'I can do that'!
Wiggy: You do quite a lot of our playtesting...
Dave: Playtesting, editing, yeah. And the writing as well.
Robin: So that's the way it's developed over time.
Dave: And Piotr's a similar situation as well, he got in through Deadlands.
Robin: And he was working for Legion as well. So we've got this got this group of people
and they're-
Robin: But we just gelled...
Dave: I like that, a group of mavericks! We just work well together.
Robin: And we love the game.
Dave: Technically, Simon's our boss, but it doesn't really feel like that!
Wiggy: I think the Internet helps - obviously the company can work without the Internet, but-
Robin: I know you're technically in the UK, but only just!
Dave: More like Iceland!
Wiggy: But there isn't that pressure of someone leaning over you, tapping you on the shoulder, saying "Where's that
report by 5 o'clock"...
Dave: But also the writing process is very lonely. If you didn't have the Internet-
Wiggy: Ah, well-
Dave: Well you're not normal!
Wiggy: I agree!
Robin: We're all spread out. You're in Shetland. I'm in the West Country, Dave's in Essex. This is the first time we've
seen each other in a year, in person. Well, not quite that long.
Wiggy: I haven't seen Shane since before I joined the company!
Robin: So we don't get together that often! The Internet is the main communication route for us.
Wiggy: I talk to Dave every day on MSN, pass him ideas-
Dave: Unless I've blocked you!
Wiggy: Yeah, well! (laughs)
Robin: "He rubbished my idea - I don't want to talk to him!"
Wiggy: Stuff gets sent to Poland via MSN as well - you've got that instant feedback as if you were in the office.
Robin: And the forum as well, we keep in touch with our fans.
RPGVT: You have got a very good presence in the forums.
Dave: It is a pleasure as well.
Robin: That's the key - they always astound me, the fans, in lots of different ways. They'll post something and say, can
we have this- For example, 'cos last week we released Kane in America, people want to play it and they said, oh, we
need the character sheet - we don't want to cut the one out of the book, we want to download one. Of course, we hadn't
really planned for that to happen until the release in October, so we put it up there straight away. And somebody wrote
on the forum, "Wow! You wouldn't expect that from [another large game company]" (laughs) But that's 'cos we are a small
company and can respond quite quickly to people’s very personal wants. So we are kind of proud of that really.
Wiggy: The fans appreciate it as well.
Dave: From my point of view, I am - effectively - a fan. As well as writing for the company, I'm a fan.
Robin: We all are, really. We're all fanboys aren't we!
Dave: You look at the forum, and you're- "That could be me!"
Robin: We don't do it for the money!
Dave: No! If we were doing it for the money-
Wiggy: No-one in the industry is in it for the money, we're in it for the love... It's not every person who, 24 hours a day, 7
days a week gets to use their imagination to the full... and get paid to do it!
Dave: That's right... you get paid?
Wiggy: I do - I know you don't! (laughs) How else do you think I get to drive my Porsche and live in my penthouse in
Shetland!
Robin: That private jet doesn't pay for itself!
Dave: We thought that was your sheep-smuggling ring!
RPGVT: So Sundered Skies is the next setting?
Robin: It is slated to be the next setting, which we hope will be available in January. It's only a week away, Dave...
Dave: I know, it's a week away from completion!
Robin: We have a bit of a lead-time on our printing. We print in China, so it's about three months to get it from there.
Dave: It really is a slow-boat!
Robin: But we've got- am I safe to say what we've got for the next three products?
Wiggy: It's 'Skies, 'Stream and Weird Wars. Although Simon has dropped another Weird Wars title he shouldn't have
done [edited out of the other Pinnacle interview!] - that's going to cause a stir on the forums when they read that!
Robin: You buy him a drink and that's it! He sings like a canary!
RPGVT: We'll have him back then!
Robin: The problem is, we are working to a really long schedule, so-
Wiggy: We've got stuff down for 2011!
Robin: Yeah, we know what we want to do.
RPGVT: A big reason for coming today was to get a copy of Solomon Kane...
Wiggy: If [Robert E] Howard was alive today, he'd be one of the greatest gaming writers out there, that's for sure. He'd
publish his own Solomon Kane book! I'd love to have met him.
RPGVT: He and Lovecraft used to write to each other...
Wiggy: Very close friends...
Dave: You can tell that in the writing as well...
Wiggy: Yes, in Conan especially, with all the tentacled monsters...
Dave: I was surprised when I started to read Conan, to see all these cthulhoid monstrosities roaming around...
Wiggy: I'm not sure the fans realise, but for Kane, you and Simon were up almost 48 hours towards the end, weren't
you? I was writing 90-hour weeks to write it...!
Robin: That’s the only bad thing about working in the games industry: you don't get to play any games...
Wiggy: We put in a lot of hours. I mean, everyone.
Robin: And then Simon got in the car in Sheffield to drive down to my house, which is a four-hour drive, to finish it.
Because we wanted to hit Gen Con with the release, so it was really a last-minute push to get that finished. We had
finished it the week before, but Shane wanted even more artwork in it, so we pulled out all the stops!
Wiggy: He [Shane] is very passionate though, extremely passionate about Kane - he's a huge Kane fan.
Robin: That is the one he really wanted to do. I was well chuffed with the result - and he was very impressed when he
saw it come back from the printers, so...
RPGVT: Do you have any more licenses that you're going to work to? Or are you going to work on your own stuff?
Robin: Currently the next three releases are our own thing.
Dave: Never say never...
Wiggy: We have plenty of the Pirates books, to support the existing RPG. We've got more than enough in-house talent,
without trying to sound cocky. Me and Dave are the main writers, and we're full of ideas-
Dave: We're full of it! (laughs)
Robin: Sometimes these opportunities do come up, and Shane's the one to find them out. He'll just pop up and say -
"Guess what, guys! You're making this next week!" We have been criticised for not getting things out fast enough...
Dave: And yet again, Sundered Skies is a week away from completion...! (laughs)
Robin: So jobs like Dave's setting has been knocked back a few times. (Answers the phone to Simon on the stand)
We've been drinking - we've told them everything! We're trying to rectify all the things you said! Well yeah, it's important
work! Keeping the fans happy!
Dave: How many Kanes has he sold?!
Robin: (Still on the phone) It's a harsh life! Twenty minutes and then you can come and have a beer! OK... better get
back to the interview! (laughs) This is all being recorded, OK darling?! Bye! (laughs)
RPGVT: How did you get the license for Kane?
Wiggy: I don't think anyone knows the story behind that one! Paradox own it and all the works...
Robin: Basically Shane works in the computer industry in his day-job, and he's got some tremendous links to various
people in high places. He is the guy that links everybody up - he's that figurehead that we are lucky to have.
RPGVT: Kane was an odd license to choose - have many people heard of Solomon Kane?
Wiggy: I think it was a gamble to some extent - everyone who games has heard of Conan, but Solomon Kane is not so
well known.
Robin: They're putting a film together, so I think a lot of people will know about Solomon Kane.
Wiggy: I think they will soon.
Robin: The film's in pre-production, so... It's by the director who did Death Watch, Michael Bassett.
Wiggy: That was a good film, Death Watch.
Robin: The director's got a web site all about [Solomon Kane]. He's got some big names involved. So I'm hoping the film
will come out...
Wiggy: And Dark Horse are producing new Kane comics in the next year or two, so Kane is going to be big, I think.
Robin: It could quite possibly be a big thing for us. I think everyone's going to know about Solomon Kane.
Wiggy: It was quite interesting writing Kane. Kane - the fictitious character - knew Sir Richard Grenville, who of course
was a real-life person. He was buried about three miles from where we used to live, so I actually wrote the book in Kane
country - Kane was born in Devon.
RPGVT: Grenville was a pirate?
Wiggy: I don't think the English called them pirates... privateers, I think! (laughs) ...the French and Spanish may have
called them pirates! (laughs) Old Grenville was a bit of an adventurer-type, as they were then, and I think the first few
native American indians brought back to England landed at Bideford, which was where Grenville is now buried, in the
local church. It's quite interesting from that point of view to walk around where Kane fictitionally may have walked - the
same streets that we were treading. So that was quite good. It's quite amazing: Howard lived in Texas in the Thirties, and
he knew stuff that people don't know using the Internet, about Devon and England and everything else.
RPGVT: Have you sold all the Special Editions?
Robin: Well, it's the same book, but it contains extra artwork, a poster and limited edition stuff like that.
RPGVT: I'm not leaving today until I've bought one more book...
Wiggy: Pirates! Rippers!
Robin: Now that is a great game!
Wiggy: I do like Rippers. It's still our favourite setting.
Robin: I really like it.
RPGVT: Well thanks very much, guys, Any closing words?
Robin: Expect great things from Pinnacle. Because we've got some big plans.
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